Blog Banter 62 – Walking in Stations

This time the discussion topic is pretty straightforward :

What is and/or should be the future for walking in stations?

A properly executed version of walking in stations would surely add to the game. Keyword here being properly. With actual things to do, even if it’s just decorating your house / home with war trophies. I don’t think CCP has the resources to do so at the moment, and probably not in the foreseeable future. Even if they did, they still have the PR nightmare that Incarna brought fresh in their collective memory.

Every thing that could go wrong went wrong with the Incarna release. Of course to start off, the version of Walking in Stations wasn’t very good. There was nothing to do except for sitting on a couch or look at your current ship in the hanger. Only one type of station room, very bad performance once inside. Character animation was horrible, you walked like a drunk and probably more issues I forgot. People were mad because it took them 3 years or so to come up with this. Lots of dev time wasted.

Then we got $1000,- designer jeans, monocles, ‘Greed is good’ and the whole thing escalated, almost resulting in the end of the game. Wilhelm over at tagn did a nice write up, no need to repeat it all again here. With this in memory most players as well would cringe at the idea of more walking in stations. Hence the current focus on space ships. And it’s probably for the best. It would take quite some work to do it well, better not do another half arsed version !

More entries over at Ninveah.

Blog Banter #61–Hang in there

Welcome to blog banter #61. For more entries head over to Ninveah’s blog.

TurAmarth asks this question: “What would we encourage ALL new players to do in their first month to get them to subscribe long term, if we had to give out one set of advice for everyone (which we do if we’re giving general advice) ?”

My first reaction was to respond with ‘do a bit of everything and see what you like !’. But I think the new tutorials already do that, though of course somewhat superficial. One month is not enough to scratch the surface. After a month you get a somewhat basic understanding of the game, if I remember well. The best advice would be to join a corp like Eve Uni that is focused on learning things.

As far as other advice, all the usual things apply: Don’t afk autopilot through low sec. If a deal is too good to be true, it’s usually a scam. Actually assume everything is a scam, unless you have determined, it’s not Winking smile.

Don’t fly what you can’t afford to lose. Don’t sell you battle cruiser to get that battleship, have a ship to fall back on, in case things don’t go according to plan. Save a little longer, be patient. And I think that last point is important in Eve. It’s a different state of mind that the current, I WANT IT ALL AND I WANT IT NOW trend in society. Be patient, do your research and figuring things out is, for me at least, the most fun about Eve. It’s very rewarding that way. In case that’s not your cup of tea, Eve might not be your thing, things aren’t handed over on a silver platter.

Also “Hang in there when things go sour’’ would be good advice as well, come to think about it Winking smile. That’s probably the best thing I can come up with as a 9 year old vet, haha.

BB #59 – Terrain

Welcome to the continuing monthly EVE Blog Banters and our 59th edition!

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For more details about what the blog banters are visit the Blog Banter page.
This month’s version comes from commenter Zappity who asks:

Probably been done before… What about local force projection (as opposed to the longer distance force projection that is often talked about)? I think of ‘terrain’ in EVE to be how systems are mapped together by gates. Strong tactics which exploit terrain have historically been extremely important in deciding battle outcomes. How does this apply in EVE in the presence of cynos?

Related to this, you have the option to explore the topic of wormhole systems with effects (Black Holes, Cataclymismic variablestar, etc) and if similar environmental effects on certain grids/deadspace or system wide should be explored for known space?


Terrain and space is a little hard to simulate. As Kirith mentions line of fire in his entry using structures and such, that would definitely be interesting, but usually, space is very empty. I don’t know the first thing about Cynos, so I won’t be going there.

Now regarding the effects, like wormholes have. Over at the Eve wiki you can check out the various effects. The pulsar and wolf effects would most noticeably change the environment for the battle. This will decide whether you are going in armor tanked or shield tanked. It will give the ‘home team’ a definite advantage I’d say. Other effects will affect ammo type and or weapon types.

Would this be suitable for known space ? Maybe in 0.0. In hisec if you would implement this in a system with agents, it would make mission running very trivial, or very hard. People would flock to the system with the generally known best effects, creating new over populating problems. You could of course rotate the effects, not sure if that would work. I am sure someone would come up with a website where you can check the best effect with lvl 4 agent and such.

All in all I think implementing something like this in K-space would spice things up, but in Hisec it would create new problems, and also make things more confusing for new players. Maybe try it out in a few systems first ? Or would people flock over there then ? Eve is so complicated sometimes Winking smile.

More participants at

BB 57–A perfect fit

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Drackarn pointed this killmail to me recently and proposed the following for a blog banter:

Obviously that is a not just a bad fit, its horrific. But the guy might not know any better. We get these all the time circulating social media and corp/alliance chat. How do we educate players on fitting? This guy has been playing four months and can fly a BC, but has no idea how to fit one. What could be done to help bro’s like this?

Furthermore, what (if any) responsibility do veterans players have in finding these players and instructing them on the finer arts of ship fitting? If it exists, does it extend beyond them into teaching PvP skills, ISK making skills, market skills, social skills, life skills…

And another question you can think about is this: do purposely wrong fits, aka comedy fits or experimental fits or off-meta fits, offend you or your corp? Would you, like Rixx Javix when he was in Tuskers, face expulsion for fitting your ships differently than the accepted standard?



Let me address that last point first. I would never be part of a corporation that has obligatory standard builds. I can see why corporations use them, a big fleet with all sorts of fits, some are bound to be bad, so you maintain a standard. In the early days of factional warfare people joined fleets with all sorts of ships and fits. The variety made it a lot of fun. And I like to come up with my own fits, it’s part of the charm of Eve. Of course if you have logistics, you have to decide armor or shield tanking, I am not against that at all Winking smile.


With that said, on to the issue of teaching new players how to fit a ship. We have all been there at the start of our Eve career and just slap whatever you got on to your ship. Pretty soon you start noticing that that doesn’t work very well. I might be old school, but basically I think people should educate themselves in fitting ships. It’s not THAT hard.

First thing you need to get out of your mind is multipurpose fits. Do one thing and do it well. Stick to one type of tanking and one type of weapon. Not saying there are no exceptions, but it’s a good general rule to go by. Then check the slot layout and the bonuses the ships gives and you’re almost there. This way you might not come up with the  most efficient perfect build ever, but it’s a good place to start, and you won’t have a fail fit as in OP’s example.

Eve is a game where you have to do some reading and googlin’ to find the info you need. And with wikis and blogs that have a lot of info it’s not very hard to find. So am I saying that all is fine, and CCP should do nothing ? What would be nice to see is some sort of suggested build / fit button, that says ‘most players fit this ship like this’. Or a little bit of text that says how you’re supposed to fit it ? You can still slap an armor repairer on a drake if you so desire, just a few little hints and or tips would be nice for the newer players amongst us.

Other participants at

BB 56–Wait and See

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Welcome to the continuing monthly EVE Blog Banters and our 56th edition! For more details about what the blog banters are visit the Blog Banter page.
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With Kornos and the upcoming industry changes following 6 weeks behind it, things are set for a vast upheaval in the coming months. Before he packed his bags and left Mord Fiddle asked some interesting questions:

The common wisdom in EVE Online is that, beyond the odd high-value moon or Faction Warfare scam, there’s little in low sec or NPC null sec to the attract ongoing attention of the big-dogs of null sec, with their large fleets and super cap doctrines. It’s assumed that NPC space simply isn’t worth the bother of controlling even if one could control it.
Is this about to change?
The shift in industrial inefficiencies from high sec to NPC low sec/null sec has begun, adding value to NPC space outside of high sec. In the recent B0TLRD accords CFC claimed two NPC null sec regions, Venal and Syndicate, as part of the CFC sphere of influence.
What is the future of low sec and NPC null sec as the economic center of gravity shifts from high sec toward null sec?

Also, you can take this banter as a chance to discuss the ramifications of the style of play in low sec and NPC null sec if it does happen that major industry shifts there.



There is a big assumption in this blogbanter that industry will move to null/low sec. So far most players live in hisec and will always continue to do so. When they can’t do what they want in hisec they’ll leave the game. So let’s wait and see how things pan out once the expansion hits. It’ll be a while till all the current stock runs out and the newly produced goods will start flowing into the market. Prices will probably increase, from what I read so far on Kronos. I don’t really see a major shift coming.

Except for a few items here and there and fuel blocks, I don’t do much industry any more, nor do I live in low or null sec, so I don’t have much experience on the subject. I don’t see people moving to low any time soon. One blown up freighter or transport will decimate the little more profit that can be made. Will the null sec people flood the market with cheaper ships (than produced in hisec) ? I seriously doubt that as well. But as I said, we’ll see how it all pans out, it’ll be interesting to watch ! Shame the Eve economist left Eve Sad smile. I still miss the quarterly economic newsletter.

More participants at The Inner Sanctum.

BlogBanter 54 – Just for one day

Heroes – Eve BB #54

Welcome to the continuing monthly EVE Blog Banters and our 54th edition! For more details about what the blog banters are visit the Blog Banter page.

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Today’s topic comes Diaries of a Space Noob blog and other sources:

Quick post. I was listening to a song and a question occurred to me. Where are the EVE heroes? Against a dark background surely all we have are anti-heroes? A lot of mockery is aimed at any who attempt to be white knights. EVE is a dark place and yet pretty much all other MMO’s try to place the player in the role of some form of hero, boosting the ego and taking the player out of the humdrum 1 in 7 billion that is RL. Why have I fitted into EVE? Did I never want to be that? So I guess my question is:

Do classic heroes exist in EVE? Is such heroism even possible in EVE? How would you go about being one without opening yourself wide open to scams? Is the nature of the game so dark that heroes can’t exist? How do you deal with that irony? What effect does this have on us and the psyche of new players coming in from other MMOs? Is it something special that we don’t have classic heroes, or should we? Are our non classic heroes more genuine?

And I would add to this, who have we elevated to the level of larger than life heroes ourselves in the game, and do they actually deserve it?[/stextbox]

This whole hero thing is very subjective. What is a hero to some, can be a villain for others ! To address the question on Classic Heroes in Eve. I guess Chribba qualifies. The most trustworthy person in Eve. It’s even his job in Eve to be trustworthy and is widely known within the game. Another one would be Eve University that did a lot for the game, but I cannot pinpoint that to one person. Sindel Pellion and her Angel project might be a hero, especially for those she helps.

But these are somewhat obvious examples of heroes in Eve, I guess the classic ones. So I would disagree that we don’t have any. But since Eve is somewhat different from other games / MMOs the heroes in Eve are different as well. Pirates and scammers can become heroes. A good FC will be a hero within their corporation. And maybe even outside of it. Eve being different is what attracts the new players I would think. These are usually the stories that get into the press. Even the main stream press.

I’d say don’t worry too much about heroes. They usually become one without the intention of becoming one. If that honour befalls on you, very well. If not, just carry on being yourself ;).

Old link to a Massively Article on Heroes in Eve :).
More participants at the Inner Sanctum.

Blog Banter #53 – Dradis

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Today’s topic comes from a tweet from @erlendur in a conversation he was having with a pilot about having multiple overview tabs open in separate windows:
So that is the topic this month: The Overview. Is it sufficient? If not how can it be improved? Is there some way to replace it? Does it give too much information, or not enough? Please be creative and specific as the overview currently is the heartbeat of the GUI.


After almost a decade the overview seems a bit outdated to be honest. Especially in combination with the directional scanner. This monstrosity really needs to go. We’re sitting in this extremely high tech (well I assume it is) spaceship and I have to hit scan every couple of seconds ?


I am currently rewatching the Battlestar Gallactica series and what struck me was the awesome radar they have on board their vipers. ‘That would be cool for Eve !’. And a week or so later this blog banter appears ! This would be my suggestion to replace the overview :). The DRADIS (Direction, RAnge, and DIStance).
DRADIS (Direction, RAnge, and DIStance)
More participants can be found at Ninveah’s blog.

BlogBanter 52 – Over the hills and far away

Welcome to the continuing monthly EVE Blog Banters and our 52nd edition! For more details about what the blog banters are visit the Blog Banter page.

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Go to the always useful ( and take a look at the All Time (weekly average) graph for concurrent accounts logged in.

Eve subs history Plateau
Eve subs history
For the past four and a half years, the graph has hovered around that 30,000 mark; it is, for all intents and purposes, a plateau. But everything must come to an end sooner or later and that is what this blog banter is about.
What’s on the other side of that plateau? 
Is there any path for CCP to follow to raise those numbers upwards for a sustained period, or is EVE going to enter a decline to lower logged in numbers from this point? How soon will we see an end to this plateau? Months? Years? Or will you argue that ‘never’ is a possibility? Or you can look at the root causes of the plateau and tackle the question if it could have been avoided or shortened if CCP had taken different actions in the past.
My response :

The past few years Eve has had an equilibrium between people leaving and people new and/or returning to the game. Hence the ‘plateau’ mentioned above. Probably somewhere in the future this plateau will start to slope down. When this is going to happen is anyone’s guess.

People might leave for the next  Big SF Game. The only thing that could be considered an Eve killer on the horizon at the moment is Star Citizen, we’ll have to see about that. Maybe some other MMO or SF game will come along and steal it’s players ! But people can play multiple games, so I seriously doubt it.

Probably the only thing that can kill Eve is Eve itself. The game has been getting a bit stale lately. The last few expansions didn’t really add much to the game, it did make it better with bugfixes and all though. There has to come a point where more people leave (or cancel their second and third account, big thing in Eve) then there are coming in. I don’t know how long CCP can get away with these minimalist ‘expansions’  before the players are really starting to get bored.

And once that happens there will be a tipping point where Eve gets a serious overhaul and Bob from Marketing decides a new, bigger playersbase that wants to spent cash in a cash shop is worth more than the current playersbase. And that’s where free to play etc.comes in.

Let’s hope it’ll take a while before we get there ;).

Other participants at Kirith’s Inner Sanctum.

BB #48–Eve Lore

Welcome to the continuing monthly EVE Blog Banters and our 48th edition! For more details about what the blog banters are visit the Blog Banter page.
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This month’s topic is a request from CCP Sisyphus who wants to know how important is Lore in EVE Online?

“How important is “fluff” in Eve online? Would eve online be the same if it were purely numbers and mechanics, or are the fictional elements important to the enjoyment of the game? Would a pure text, no reference to sci-fi or fancy names still be an engaging game? Should CCP put more or less emphasis on immersion?”

Lore puts the RP in MMORPGs ! So it’s extremely important for a ‘role playing’ game. I do feel however that most games that call themselves MMORPG are more massive online games, than RPGs to be honest. I feel that the lore is the framework for the game, and that the gameplay should somehow fit within.

Having said that however, another thought pops up in my head that says otherwise. How often have you played a game, or even an MMO where you didn’t give a rat’s ass about the backstory. Rift, Everquest 2 and Tera to name a few I have played in the past, and I had no clue about the backstory. So I am contradicting myself here ! On the other hand, I still play WoW (yes really) and I even got a shelf full of Warcraft books, and I know a bit about Eve’s backstory as well and these are the 2 games that seem to stick with me throughout the years. So maybe it does matter after all. You seem to get more involved and more of a ‘what’s going to happen next’ kind of feeling. Especially now with Wow and the upcoming 5.4 raid where the leader of the Horde will be killed and everybody is anxious to know who will be the next to lead the Horde.

Sansha Invasion

Should CCP put more emphasis on immersion ? I think they’re doing a good job with the live events (that I always manage to miss it seems), and there should be more of those I think. It does move the overall story forward and it seems to suck you more into the game and makes you play more and longer, which should be a good thing for a sub based MMO.

Eve is unique in a way, since a lot of the Lore of Eve comes from the players themselves. BOB alliance has become part of the Lore of Eve, and so has Goonswarm, and maybe someday, a guy that started his trial last week, might become part of the Lore of Eve that people will talk about for years to come ! And that is the beauty of Eve in my opinion.

How To Be Terrible At Eve: A Guide – Blog Banter #48 – Lore
Sand, Cider and Spaceships - BB48 – In The Future, In a Star Cluster Far, Far Away…..
Warp Drive Active – Blog Banter #48 The Importance of Lore
Eveoganda – BB#48: Lore is our Soul
Astral’s Eve Trial By Fire – Blog Banter 48
Emergent Patroller - Blog Banter 48 – Our fictional cultural heritage
Mabrick’s Mumblings - BB48: Pile of Bricks
Faction Fit Pod – BB#48 – Life of Lore
Inner Sanctum of the Ninveah – Lore. What is it Good For?
Sered’s Lives – Blog Banter 48: Suspension of Disbelief
Space Business, Serious Business – To fluff or not to fluff
Low Sec Lifestyle – Blog Banter #48
Jester’s Trek - My story is the same as yours just one chapter ahead
Roc’s Ramblings – Blog Banter 48 – Lore
Life on the Bubble – Art of War Alliance – BB48: Who Are You?
Fiddler’s Edge – Eve Lore: Blog Banter 48
The Ancient Gaming Noob – Blog Banter #48 – You Want the Lore? You Can’t Handle the Lore!
Wherein Ships Explode. A Lot – Blog Banter 48: Stop! In the name of the Lore!
Morphisat’s Blog – BB #48- Eve Lore
Ugleb’s Journal - BB48 – Lore: the conflict driver
Aggressive Logistics – BB48 – The Dystopia Effect
A Journey Through The Mind - Blogbanter: I reject your reality and substitude my own
Poetic Discourse - The Caldari Alliance Championship 2005 (or Alliance Tournament I)
A CARBON Based Life - Folklore in New Eden… BB48: Lore